Mylène Bruneau: It’s because an entrepreneur at the pre-startup or startup stage is often unaware of the support ecosystem for entrepreneurs.

Pascal Lareau: When you get a mentor, the number of entrepreneurs who are still in business after 5 years will go up to 75%.

Alexandre Boucher-Doddridge: Don’t hesitate to knock on doors and worry about bothering people.

Katerine-Lune Rollet: Hello, I’m Katerine-Lune Rollet. You’re listening to Libres échanges, a Desjardins Business podcast where I look at different topics related to entrepreneurship. Today, I’m going to talk about a key aspect: starting a business.
Starting a business is one of the biggest challenges in a career. You’re at once propelled by the project and nervous about what lies ahead. What should you be focusing on? Whom should you talk to? What resources are available to get you off to a good start? That’s what I’m going to try to find out with my guests today.
Alexandre Boucher-Doddridge, you’re from Saint-Antoine-de-Tilly near Québec City, and you decided to take the leap three years ago, at the age of 26, by creating smart planters. I’d like to talk about your company, HerbiaEra, because in 2019, for your final school project with your partner Anthony Bisson, you were supposed to set up a project and you wanted to combine technology with horticulture, but also to encourage people to garden at home. So what’s the idea behind these two goals?

Alexandre: We developed and marketed innovative technologies for people who don’t have the knowledge or time to garden at home. So we developed indoor planters and a mobile app that makes this possible.

Katerine-Lune: We also have Pascal Lareau with us. You’re an advisor at Desjardins Business and you help people like Alexandre. So what steps are involved in starting a business?

Pascal: Yes, actually, the steps are always the same. But each case is still considered individually. In fact, we start with a vision and then prepare a business plan where the actual product will be able to be created. We check the market and then see if a management team can be set up to complete the plan. Then we look for financing to get the project off the ground.

Katerine-Lune: So if I understand you correctly, you’re a bit like a general practitioner who assesses the challenges entrepreneurs face and then refers them to the right people to help them deal with their respective issues. Is that right?

Pascal: Exactly. Depending on the entrepreneur’s profile, they’ll have access to different types of financing. There are entrepreneurs who start a business as a second career. They are already established, so they’re able to get a certain type of financing. When you’re starting out, say in your twenties, and you’re not established yet, you don’t have any assets, you don’t have any credit history, you’re going to have to turn to other types of financing, perhaps para-governmental, partners, that sort of thing, where financing is obtained based on financial forecasts and business plans. So it’s entirely possible, but you have to check with the entrepreneur to see what their needs are first, and then what their initial situation is so you can properly guide them.

Katerine-Lune: Our third guest is Mylène Bruneau, who is a communications advisor with Développement international Desjardins, a branch of Desjardins Group which the public may be a little less familiar with. So tell me about the services you offer to entrepreneurs.

Mylène: Yes, of course. Développement international Desjardins coordinates programs known as solidarity-based financing, so in collaboration with the Desjardins caisse network as well as community organizations that specialize in supporting entrepreneurs. So there are two programs for entrepreneurs who don’t qualify for traditional financing or credit: Desjardins Microcredit to Businesses and Créavenir. So Desjardins Microcredit to Businesses is for self-employed workers and entrepreneurs of all ages. Créavenir mainly targets entrepreneurs aged 18 to 35. For both programs, we offer financing that takes into account the financial reality of entrepreneurs at the pre-startup and startup stage as well as local support.

Katerine-Lune: Mylène, you believe that the challenge is twice is great for young people and newcomers who want to start a business. Why is it more difficult for them?

Mylène: That’s right. In fact, I’d say the challenge is threefold for these entrepreneurs. Of course, we’re not just targeting newcomers, but they still make up 25% of our clientele with the two programs I mentioned. And entrepreneurs who don’t qualify for traditional credit are faced with a number of challenges. First, for the entrepreneurs we support, like any entrepreneurs, they must be able to generate interest in their project, first prove its value, but also convince lenders and investors that they’re able to successfully carry out the project. So this is the whole idea of building self-confidence, confidence in your project, creating a spark, so that you can believe in them and then believe in their business project. Second, the key is obviously access to financing. This is another challenge for young people, newcomers and entrepreneurs, who, for example, lack collateral, assets and a down payment.

Katerine-Lune: Or even a credit history.

Mylène: Exactly. They don’t have a credit history, they contact investors with only a good idea or sometimes a business that’s just barely taking off. So it’s extremely difficult for them to secure financing. And since this is their situation, that’s why we say they’re excluded from the traditional financing system. And third, the third challenge we could mention, is that an entrepreneur who is in the pre-startup stage or is starting a business is often unaware of the support ecosystem for entrepreneurs. Whom do we contact? What resources are available to help us? Not only in terms of financing, but also in terms of support, networks, contacts, tools, etc. So I would say there’s a certain level of isolation when you start a business project.

Katerine-Lune: It’s true, you first have to know what resources are available to take advantage of them. Alexandre, what were the first steps in starting your business?

Alexandre: Our project was based on innovation, so there was the innovation development stage, which was done with the Université du Québec à Rimouski research chair. But the next step was to get in touch with the community’s entrepreneurial ecosystem, UQAR entrepreneurship, then we were put in contact with the RCMs, people from BDC or Futurpreneur. So at first, it was really about understanding the entire ecosystem, its interaction. The next step was to put together a good business plan and apply to all possible competitions. These competitions really allowed us to get a little cash and then a pat on the back as approval for our product or innovation, our business. So that we could, in our case, after we completed our bachelor’s degree, we could say, hey, we have a bit of cash, there’s some interest, our innovation has real export potential. So we thought, why not start a business.

Katerine-Lune: What’s also special about your project is that fairly early in the initial startup stage you needed a lot of capital fairly quickly because you wanted to use technology, develop your project with a research centre, for instance. How did you get financing?

Alexandre: In our case, we met with people from the Ministère de l’Économie et de l’Innovation. We looked at all the programs that applied. We also went to the college technology transfer centres that are associated with the Institut de technologie agroalimentaire, in our case, called Bioptère. Then we presented our project, our business plan, our vision, as well as our team, the people we were working with; we were no longer just two young people straight out of university, but there were a number of people on the team who joined us and gave us credibility. So we managed to receive a sizable grant called “Programme innovation volet 1,” which acted as an incentive at the start and allowed us to get a number of other loans later on.

Katerine-Lune: A major milestone for both your company and your financing was when you took part in the crowdfunding campaign with La Ruche. Tell us exactly how it went and how it helped you.

Alexandre: Clearly, nothing beats crowdfunding to test a market. Our product was created directly for consumers. So there’s nothing better than having consumers endorse the product. So we did pre-marketing on La Ruche last summer. We’re really happy. Our goal was to have over $100,000 in sales, then we managed to raise almost $300,000, including the grants and loans that were added to the project. As a result, we raised the largest amount in the history of the La Ruche platform to date. So we’re really, really happy. Yes, it gives us cash, financing for the production phase and then to improve the product, but also credibility; it shows that the market is ready for products such as ours. So it’s very promising for the future.

Katerine-Lune: It also has a snowball effect because companies, or, in fact, financial assistance programs, see that there is public interest and there are now more people, more companies that will help you as your crowdfunding project is developed.

Alexandre: Exactly. It definitely gives us exposure. And it also paved the way to different investors, partners, collaborators and financial institutions. So it definitely provided major leverage for a company such as ours.

Katerine-Lune: Mylène was telling us about the Créavenir program. What kind of impact did it have for you?

Alexandre: Through the Créavenir program we were able to get $5,000 in direct grants. And then they joined the La Ruche campaign. So if we reached our goal of $100,000, Créavenir would give us a $5,000 grant and a line of credit. So it’s really great to have this money at the beginning, but it’s… you know, I was also saying that it provides a certain amount of credibility. So when you have Desjardins as a financial partner in a project, it makes other financial partners want to get on board and believe in the project even more.

Katerine-Lune: So, Pascal, what happens during an initial meeting with a financial institution?

Pascal: It basically depends on the entrepreneur’s initial needs. It depends on the business models. Some business models are easier to start up than others, and require less investment. Where innovation is concerned, we need to quote-unquote burn money, if you will, to try to do tests, that sort of thing. If you start your business as a consultant, at that point, let’s say it’s more about just launching the business and having operating tools, as we were talking about earlier where Alexandre was concerned, that is, possibly a credit card or an operating line of credit. But let’s say the investment needs are lower. So what we’re going to check at the outset is the entrepreneur’s business model. And then where they’re at in their development so that we can guide them properly afterwards, meaning, point them to the right partners to help them continue the analysis process if it hasn’t been completed yet. Then, if they have a comprehensive vision and just don’t have enough financing, we’ll try to see what their situation is and direct them to the right partners, either ourselves at the financial institution or the partners we were talking about earlier from Alexandre, Futurpreneur, MicroEntreprendre, La Ruche, Créavenir. All of these programs will be potential tools to help entrepreneurs move forward.

Katerine-Lune: So the first meeting is really when you take the time to assess the situation and find the right resources for the entrepreneur. There are times when you don’t have the answers at the beginning of your journey as an entrepreneur; you can make mistakes. In your case, you have both a mentor and a coach. How do they help you with your business?

Alexandre: Our mentor directs us more by asking us questions, challenging us and saying, “Did you think about this aspect? Why did you do that? How are you managing your human resources?” Questions a little more along those lines. Our coach is really more for the psychological aspect. For me and my partner Anthony to get along, to maintain a work-life balance. You know, everything the entrepreneurial world brings to your personal life, because it’s kind of like me and my partner are in a relationship, actually, a shareholder agreement, and then starting such a big project. So it really allows us to help ourselves in terms of soft skills and know-how, actually.

Katerine-Lune: Is this typical of your generation to say that you need a life coach? Do you think that someone who started a business in the 1970s or 1980s would have seen the importance of getting psychological help in this way?

Alexandre: Maybe our generation is more aware of the difficulties we may experience or the problems that may be caused by the psychological aspects of overexerting ourselves, of always wanting more, working long days and weeks. And sometimes there’s a certain amount of risk too, when you’re involved with innovation; there’s a certain amount of financial risk that comes with it. So our generation may definitely be more open to this. For me, people who don’t have a coach or don’t have those types of resources to talk to, I think it’s really beneficial, and it definitely helps better understand our partner and to help ourselves during tougher times.

Katerine-Lune: Pascal, is there a definition for an ideal mentor?

Pascal: I don’t know if there’s an official definition of an ideal mentor. However, Alexandre already brought up important points, namely that a traditional mentor as I understand the notion when I talk to Desjardins members about this, it’s someone who will guide you through the business model, in the company’s growth, the entrepreneur’s people skills. Meaning that the mentor is not there for the know-how, such as showing a baker how to bake bread. We want the mentor to be there to support entrepreneurs when they have development questions, vision issues, that sort of thing, to challenge them regarding their vision over the long term, short term, medium term, etc. It’s really looking in from the outside. So we’ll try to find an entrepreneur who may be retired, a seasoned entrepreneur who’s been successful in business and will bring, say, some credibility to their comments. In other words, entrepreneurs exhibit a strong personality, whether during the startup stage or in their personal life, right? We have someone who wants to achieve their vision, who’s self-disciplined, self-motivated, etc. Not always someone who wants to be told what to do. It takes people with some credibility to be able to challenge them. So we don’t necessarily want a neighbour who likes us, but an entrepreneur who has already succeeded and will come up with credible comments and be able to provide perspectives which the entrepreneur hasn’t had until now.

Katerine-Lune: Mylène, for a young entrepreneur like Alexandre, but also for newcomers, the people around them are likely very important to ensuring the business’s success, right?

Mylène: Of course. It’s very important to have the right people around you as an entrepreneur. This is one of the success factors that is most often mentioned by the entrepreneurs we support. I think Alexandre’s testimonial shows it very well. Having a mentor as well, but a lot of trust is needed. As Pascal was saying, having someone else who believes in your project, not just your neighbour or your grandmother who thinks you’re very nice and a wonderful person, but a seasoned entrepreneur, someone experienced. It gives you a boost. The entrepreneurs we support often say that the mentoring or support they received, other than financial, is the push that enabled them to move forward, achieve their goal and also face adversity, because God knows there are obstacles and challenges when you start a business. As I said earlier, it’s also about understanding the ecosystem. A seasoned entrepreneur will be able to direct a new business owner to the right resources, to doors they have to knock on, and the keys to those doors as well. So definitely a mentor is one of the keys to success in a business project.

Katerine-Lune: To conclude, what would you tell future entrepreneurs who may not dare to make the leap? Alexandre?

Alexandre: You don’t know everything when you come out of school, especially when you’re young. And even someone who’s older, who’s starting a business, doesn’t know everything, so surround yourself with the best people if you want to be the best, and dare to be entrepreneurial.

Katerine-Lune: Mylène?

Mylène: I would say that you shouldn’t be intimidated by financial institutions or organizations that support entrepreneurs. You often get the impression that entrepreneurship is an impenetrable fortress, but that’s not the case. So I encourage entrepreneurs to knock on the door. Even if you’re just at the pre-startup stage, you only have an idea for a project or started up a business in your basement or your parents’ basement, and your business plan is in your head or in the notes on your iPhone, come see us, come knock at the door of your Desjardins Business Centre, Futurpreneur, RCM, MicroEntreprendre and La Ruche. It’s our job to support you.

Katerine-Lune: Pascal, do you have any closing remarks?

Pascal: Yes, I would repeat a little of what Alexandre said. Meaning that it’s very important to have support, as we see a lot of entrepreneurs in the startup stage who want to be a one-woman or one-man show. They have a vision, self-confidence and determination, but often this will hinder the company’s growth and rapid expansion. In other words, to summarize, an entrepreneur always has a number of very important things to do every day. When they get up in the morning, there’s more than one absolutely essential task to get done. So they always choose the one they like the most and some aspects get neglected. Even if they can do them, they will postpone them and procrastinate. So it’s important to quickly set up a management team, meaning subcontractors, consultants, partners, a mentor, organizations like Futurpreneur, CLD, the financial institution, Desjardins advisors. We’re always available. To get support so you can talk to someone, otherwise you’ll be alone out there. So that’s the really key thing: not to stay alone with your vision, but to get yourself known, get to know your partners, and benefit from what they have to offer.

Katerine-Lune: Based on our discussions, I’d say that starting a business takes courage and determination, but especially being able to ask for help, get support and good mentors to guide you through unknown terrain. Thank you very much to all three of you.
Libres échanges is presented by Desjardins Business. You can find all of the podcasts in the series on Spotify. My name is Katerine-Lune Rollet, thank you for listening.

Daniel Valois: Innovation is always co-creation. It's always a conversation with the end user.

Louis-Philippe Poulin: Reaching out to clients allows us to get a glimpse of their reality, to adapt and to pivot more quickly.

Katerine-Lune Rollet: Hello, this is Katerine-Lune Rollet. You're listening to Libre échanges, a Desjardins Business podcast where I take a closer look at different themes related to entrepreneurship. In this episode, I'm meeting with 2 guests to talk about starting a tech business. Enjoy!
The tech sector occupies a major role in the Quebec economy, and plays a part in raising our international profile. Today, I turn my attention to the entrepreneurs that make up this booming community.
In a start-up context, how do tech companies differ from those in more traditional sectors? That's what I'm going to explore with Louis-Philippe Poulin, founding president of Diffusion Solutions Intégrées, and Daniel Valois, Senior Business Advisor, Innovation and Technology at Desjardins Business.
Louis-Philippe, your company is located in Trois-Rivières. You have more than 300 clients across Canada. What flagship product or technology do you sell?

Louis-Philippe: Our main software is called ProgressionLIVE. Basically, it's a software program that helps SMEs automate their business processes. To be more specific, our clients are service companies, things like electricians, plumbers, people in ventilation or delivery who want to eliminate paper completely. The image I often use is the famous invoice with the yellow copy, the pink copy and the white copy. We're basically doing away with that. We want to eliminate paper in companies and make it faster for them to integrate their accounting and their orders, so that they're more efficient.

Katerine-Lune: Daniel Valois, what's a day in the life of a senior business advisor in innovation and technology?

Daniel: Our role is essentially to design and deploy the technology offering, but for businesses. It's worth describing what a tech company is. It's a company whose value proposition, meaning the gain or solution it offers to a client or the problem it solves, is based on technology. Netflix, which I think is a very good example, has essentially the same value proposition as Blockbuster did back in the day. So, for Blockbuster, what were they looking for as a client? We would go get videos so that we could watch them at home–it's entertainment. Now what did Netflix do? Instead of going to a physical store to pick up a video, they tell you you're going to have access to that same entire library, but right in the comfort of your own home thanks to a certain technology. Technology evolves in a frequently volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous environment. New technologies are introduced every day. What was interesting a while ago can change very quickly. So, because of this, you need processes, you need highly adaptable products. We're here, really, first and foremost, for our members, to make sure we have something good to offer them. What we're doing is taking a process that's often inefficient, that often takes a long time, that can lead to mistakes, and making it more efficient. So we allow a company to do more with less. And that's exactly what we're doing with all the solutions at Diffusion Solutions Intégrées.

Katerine-Lune: While we're on the topic, let's talk about your relationship. Louis-Philippe, what's the day-to-day like with Daniel?

Louis-Philippe: Basically, our relationship has evolved over time, but it's quickly turned into more of a relationship centred on coaching, mentoring and integration into the senior management committee. It often happens in technology that we love innovation and want to push to create new things, but we don't know whether what we're doing will work. So essentially, this creates a bit of uncertainty among employees, who might be, let's say, almost distrustful because it takes them a little bit out of their comfort zone. But the reason we're doing this is to try to stay ahead of the curve because if you take the example Daniel gave, Blockbuster versus Netflix, one of them wasn't ahead of the curve and missed the boat a bit, I think. And what Daniel brings to the table is showing us, with his expertise, and other commissions and other firms he sees–offering us a bit of help there. Because we happen to be a small business with 30 to 35 employees. We can't have full-time employees doing just business intelligence or market analysis. We all have to keep on top of it a bit. So it fosters this mindset throughout the company.

Katerine-Lune: In previous episodes of Libres Échanges, all of our guests, without exception, touted the importance of having a coach, a mentor, people who guide us through our entrepreneurial journey. Is this also true in the tech sector?

Daniel: It's certainly important, but once again, volatility and uncertainty–the fact that everything is constantly changing–make it even more important for this sector, in my opinion, because we have no choice but to keep our eye on the ball in terms of our operations. We have no choice but to constantly be evolving in terms of what we do, and successfully meeting our clients' needs. And then, every once in a while, someone who is able to look in from the outside, this advisory committee, that's what I try to push as hard as possible, someone to whom we can make even a quick 5-minute phone call to say, "Hey, so I have this idea; am I completely out to lunch?" And at the same time, have people on the advisory committee who can bring in outside ideas or who have opportunities or risks on their radar. I think this is essential in this sector. Now, I think it's just as important in all sectors. But when you look at the market in which technologies evolve, a manufacturing company will often start thinking about an advisory committee only when it's reached a certain maturity. In tech, on the other hand, you almost have to have one right away, or else make sure you have a coach somewhere to guide you. I think it has to be done very, very quickly in tech.

Katerine-Lune: Louis-Philippe?

Louis-Philippe: When we're amongst ourselves in the company, we always come up with the best ideas and we convince ourselves that they're the best ideas, and that we're really good at this, that we're the best. Then eventually someone from outside the circle comes in, they come back with 2 or 3 pointed questions, and then we're like, whoops! We hadn't thought of that. So, ultimately, our best idea or best decision was maybe a bit bad.

Daniel: You know, it's often said that it's important to learn from our mistakes. But an even better trick is to try to learn from other people's mistakes!

Louis-Philippe: Yes, exactly!

Katerine-Lune: Let's talk about tech startups. Are there some common mistakes that entrepreneurs make?

Louis-Philippe: It's hard to answer because I don't know if they were mistakes or learning experiences. But I started a business, I was 24 when I started. Of course, we didn't seek out very much outside help. We didn't really seek out money either. We used our own self-generated funds. It may have gone a bit slower as a result. The advice I got, the only advice I got at the time was from my accountant, and it was to go out and get clients. And I think that's still good advice. Because going after clients and meeting with the people who will ultimately be using our service or our product will enable us to get a glimpse of their reality, to adapt, to avoid being in our own little world making a product for a year, 2 years, and then ta-da! Here's my program that, in the end, maybe doesn't really meet any needs. It allows us, at least potentially, to pivot more quickly. That's what happened to me.

Katerine-Lune: Daniel?

Daniel: That's a very good point. What we're doing is innovating. We're innovating in that we're introducing ourselves to clients with our small team. And often, the only person on our team is us, that's it. You're there in front of the client, and like someone who's placing an order, you try to figure out what their needs are. And after that, well, we take all sorts of notes on their needs, bring them back to our small team, and say, OK, this is my understanding of their need. Then we try to come up with a complete solution. And then we come to what I call–and pardon the expression–the programmer's high, where at a certain point it's just fun, because we're saying to ourselves, "Hey, while we're at it,"–a bit like when you're building your new house–"While we're at it, we could also do this or that, that might be nice." Then we end up in a situation where we had an initial request which we made improvements to, and then when we deliver the solution to the client, the response is often, “That's not at all what I was expecting!" But the truth is that it's not … it's a shared problem, but one that will always exist in innovation, that it's not so much that we misunderstood what the client wanted, it's that, often, when we innovate, we're doing something new. This makes it difficult for the client to even fully understand what they, themselves, want. And so there's the famous solution of offering something of minimum value, to quickly come out with something for the client. The analogy that comes to mind is, you know, the one about the cake. Say you've made a cake with the frosting, the little princesses on it, the text, all the sprinkles, then you try to deliver it to the client. And you're continually disappointed because you're told, "That's not at all what I wanted." The principle in tech is that it's often better to try to make the cake not as a whole all at once, but one slice at a time. Then you get a slice out to the client as quickly as possible, so they can taste it, and so you can know, "Does this meet your expectations so far? Yes, OK perfect, we'll continue and expand on this together." Innovation is always co-creation. It's always a conversation with the end user to understand what they like and don't like. It also takes an open mind to be able to say that your initial vision, well, it wasn't the right one. And it's the client who tells us what's needed at the end of the day.

Katerine-Lune: Is there a difference between starting a tech business and starting a more traditional one?

Daniel: What I see, which is quite typical of tech companies, is that more and more we're seeing companies that aren't developing a business so much as simply developing technology. A business is not just your value proposition, it's, "Who are your clients going to be? What are your client segments? How will you communicate with them? How will you sell your product, your revenue model, your key partners, your key activities?" Putting all that together, back in the day, and in other sectors, that's done at the outset. In tech, it seems to happen rather quickly that we become so focused on solving one specific problem that we jump in with the technology and we often forget that we're not just developing technology, we're developing a business as a whole. And this means that before you get too far in the start-up process, you have to ask yourself the question, "OK, is my technology generating a gain for someone or solving a problem for someone?" That's the first thing, we at least need to have that. But after that, sure, we may have a solution to an existing problem, but, OK, now how do I reach that market? But we should at the very least keep in mind that we're not developing technology; we're developing a business. And I think that's something we see more in tech than in any other sector.

Katerine-Lune: I'm guessing, Louis-Philippe, that this example speaks to you because that was your experience. You started your business with a roommate that you also went to school with. Is it a challenge for tech entrepreneurs who are at the helm of tech companies to tell themselves, I'm a programmer, but at a certain point I realize that I need help with marketing, that I need help with accounting? Does it come as a shock sometimes in their entrepreneurial journey?

Louis-Philippe: Well, I think that in tech or in other fields, a classic move is to try to surround ourselves with the best people in our midst to supplement what we lack in terms of strengths. But that's harder to do at first when you don't really have the money, the financial means to hire people. So in my case, I'm kind of the one who developed skills by seeking out training courses on this and that, and refresher training. I was a bit more of a generalist in the end, so I was able to make some progress in accounting, sales and analysis. But that was some time ago. After that, of course, when the time comes to put together the team, I have to have people who will support me. In fact, the goal is to hire people who are better than me. And so today everyone is better than me, thankfully, in their specialty, in their field.

Katerine-Lune: Probably all the entrepreneurs from various fields tuning in would say that you always have to be innovative, but I think this is especially true, obviously, for all fields related to tech. Is this appetite for what's new essential?

Daniel: Definitely! I mean, I don't want to speak for you, Louis-Philippe; I'd be very surprised if we had different responses to this. In tech, frankly, a lot of the skills I had 4 or 5 years ago, these days, gosh, I don't even know if I use them 1 percent of the time. And the main quality that we have, I think–and in my discussions with Louis-Philippe, that's often what it is–you know, we have our whole library that's full to the gills, and then the conversation always turns to, “Hey, have you heard about this new thing that's coming out?" And so we don't develop based on our experience of what we've learned from the past. To an extent, yes, but our decisions tend to be based on our understanding of what's coming. You know, it's kind of like that Wayne Gretzky quote: “Skate to where the puck is going, not to where it's been." Well, that's what technology is all about. And that only comes with curiosity, I think. That's the solution.

Katerine-Lune: Louis-Philippe?

Louis-Philippe: For us, when we first arrived on the market, we were 2 people in an apartment in Montreal who just, like, created a program. And we started getting clients: 1, then 2, then 10, then 50. But ultimately, we went after these clients, and it wasn't a competitor going after them who's established and who's got a large client list; it was a small company of 2 people. So we could easily have the same thing happen to us tomorrow by some new startup. So that's where it's extremely competitive as well. Competitors aren't just across the street or in the next town over; we're dealing with competition on a global scale. So it could be any company from who knows where that produces an offering that becomes kind of the product to meet an important need, that comes in and dominates the market. So with this in mind, we know we always have to be ahead of the curve, to be thinking about innovation.

Daniel: You know, a lot of times our tech competitor isn't the one we've known forever, who does more or less the same thing as us but who suddenly just does it better. It's often a startup that comes along with a small piece of everything we're doing, but they do it using new technology. And then they sneak up behind us and we never saw them coming.

Katerine-Lune: Is there also a particular aspect to working with new technologies–you know, you're talking to clients who may not understand you–how should you talk to clients?

Louis-Philippe: That's partly why I don't program anymore; I've become a tech popularizer. That's basically what it's been, especially in our sector, given that there are a lot of SMEs. These are people who don't have an in-house IT department, for example, who don't have the resources or skills, really, to deal with that. So we've taken on a bit of a dissemination and training role. It's a lot of support, really, that we have to provide on a daily basis. Yes, it's the boss who makes the decision to implement a certain technology, that's what we want. But in the end, it's not the boss that's going to be involved in implementing it. They're not going to be the one using it; their employees are. And as for the employees, they're a bit wary because we're changing the way they do things. We're coming in and changing their routine, so there we have our first obstacle. And second, they may also not even be comfortable with technology. That's what's going to determine whether the implementation is a success or a failure: the desire for people to want it to work. But it's about getting them ready to accept this new technology and to see it as an ally.

Katerine-Lune: Daniel, do you have anything to add?

Daniel: I think the key thing in tech is that the value and quality of our service offering is not up to us to judge. And that's a common mistake. Ultimately, the client in the judge. And in that sense, we're only as good as what we're able to make people understand, not what we're able to do, but what we're able to make our clients understand.

Katerine-Lune: Do you have any advice for a tech entrepreneur who's looking to get financing?

Daniel: It all starts with making sure you don't go to a financial institution with just your technology; you have to show up with a comprehensive business model. For me, the tool of choice is the famous Business Model Canvas, where you have to summarize the fundamental elements of your business model in 9 key points on a single page. The other thing I'd mention is making sure you have support when you're dealing with a financial institution. There's significant added value in being well supported by professionals when dealing with the market. The other thing I'd like to add is the importance of understanding what your business objectives are. Don't just throw around buzz words–pardon the term–but make sure you're coherent and that you really understand what your short-, medium- and long-term goals are. That you properly translate them into financial projections. That you understand how comfortable you, yourself, are with managing a business. Some people are comfortable managing with a high amount of debt. Others will say, "I like to have more security, more breathing room, more flexibility in my management." It's important to know yourself as an entrepreneur, and having the right tools to fully understand that, I think, is essential.

Katerine-Lune: Louis-Philippe, say there are 2 roommates living in their apartment in Montreal who want to start a business. What advice would you give them?

Louis-Philippe: I've definitely always been interested in the client side of things because I find it, quote-unquote, pretty simple. And at the same time, if you want to start a business and you aren't focused solely on technology, well, you'll have people who are going to use that technology. And they'll also be able to give you comments. So you'll want to rather quickly find clients or people who are ready to participate in the development process. In IT, we use the term MVP, or minimum viable product, so a product that works, but with the minimum required for it to be usable. So maybe there are some buttons or aesthetic features missing, maybe there are features that haven't been added yet, but we're trying to strip it down to the bare essentials. So it allows us to move faster and allows people to test it out. To not be afraid, basically, to have clients or other people try it out because the faster you do it, the faster you'll get feedback that will help you adapt: to immediately adapt your product, your technology, which may ultimately meet a need that you hadn't even identified or that you didn't think was the most important. So these 2 aspects are more or less what I would advise. Because in the end, if you're starting a tech company, given that you don't need that big an investment, I think the advice is that it can be fast and you can quickly test the market, in other words, see if you made the right decisions or choices.

Katerine-Lune: Daniel Valois, Louis-Philippe Poulin, thank you so much for your very insightful advice and observations that have helped us better understand your field. Wishing many years of success for Diffusion Solutions Intégrées, and for your business partnership.
Libres échanges is a Desjardins Business production. You can find all episodes of the series on Spotify. My name is Katerine-Lune Rollet, thank you for listening.

Mériane Labrie: We support one another. We’re going to want to help each other, and that’s a huge strength.

Ruth Vachon: And we need role models that inspire us in every way.

Katerine-Lune Rollet: Hello, this is Katerine-Lune Rollet. You’re listening to Libres échanges, a Desjardins Business podcast where I look at different topics related to entrepreneurship. Today, I’m meeting with two exceptional women to talk about female entrepreneurship. Enjoy!
In 2021, only 16% of Canadian businesses were majority-owned by women. What know-how do we need to play a bigger role in the market?
Today, I’m meeting with two women entrepreneurs to talk about their career path, the challenges they’ve faced, and the lessons they’ve learned.
Ruth Vachon, welcome to Libres échanges. You were an entrepreneur yourself for a long time, and now you’re the CEO of the Réseau des femmes d’affaires du Québec. How does this network help women entrepreneurs? In 2021, only 16% of Canadian businesses were majority-owned by women. What know-how do we need to play a bigger role in the market?

Ruth: This year, the network is celebrating its 40th anniversary. We’ve been around for 40 years, and the main purpose of the network is to help women entrepreneurs benefit from various opportunities. So we’re seen as a network that’s very hands-on in helping women get contracts that otherwise would be harder to get.

Katerine-Lune: So what services do you provide to women entrepreneurs?

Ruth: What we do for women entrepreneurs is make large companies aware of the impact of every small action so that they will purchase products and services from women entrepreneurs and other minority groups.

Katerine-Lune: Because for you, the economic potential is really the most important element for women entrepreneurs?

Ruth: I bring it up all the time because it’s almost visceral. People often ask me why we’re still talking about women entrepreneurs when we don’t talk about just entrepreneurship. Because the process is different over time. We have much less longevity than our male counterparts. When I came, I would say to myself, “Well, we’re not there, we’re not talking about this anymore.” But beyond what people may think, the figures speak for themselves, because, as I said earlier, we at the Network are seeing it from the perspective of obtaining contracts for women entrepreneurs, but according to the statistics, only 1% of these contracts are awarded to women entrepreneurs where large companies are concerned. So 99% of orders go elsewhere than to a woman entrepreneur.

Katerine-Lune: Our second guest started a company to wage a war on refined sugar by creating food products using her favourite ingredient, date puree. Mériane Labrie is the founder of Madame Labriski. First, tell us who Madame Labriski is.

Mériane: Madame Labriski started from a blog. We have now sold 300,000 copies of cookbooks in Quebec. Two published in English Canada and the United States, and one in France. I have 12 food products available in grocery stores – everything is sweetened with date puree. I go on speaking tours where I give presentations to kindergarten students as well as company executives. So, different topics by a marathon runner, a determined woman, a visionary. And there’s also a collection of youth novels in which Mini Labriski speaks to children, and shows them that when you eat healthy, when you believe very strongly in yourself, anything is possible.

Katerine-Lune: Ruth, could you say that Mériane is able to make a good sales pitch?

Ruth: You could say that she’s able to make a good sales pitch and that could influence a huge number of people. But not everyone is born with knowing how to make a sales pitch. You know, Mériane, there aren’t any on every street corner, although we’d like there to be more. We need to practice, to prepare. Preparing as a group to make a pitch, I’m telling you, is extremely powerful.

Katerine-Lune: It must a great thing to do. Mériane, you’re obviously a born salesperson, but not everyone may have it in them. Do you have any advice for us?

Mériane: I always say it’s key for entrepreneurs. We are the best sellers of our product. We have to master this art, and it’s something that you develop over time. You build it up like a muscle. What’s important is that people quickly understand why our idea is so brilliant, and why our company, our product, is essential. Then we have to add our own flavour to make sure people remember us. Because I often tell people it comes from the heart; after that, it’s our enthusiasm. Act as if you were a little girl or boy standing in front of your mirror singing. We’ve all done that, it’s the same thing. You have to be bold, and it’s also a question of confidence. Do you believe in what you do? Do you? The stars in your eyes, work on translating them in words, have 100 or 120 words that are extremely impactful. And then people are going to say, I want that, I want their product. Well, I really believe that.

Katerine-Lune: Can you give us an overall picture of women entrepreneurs in Quebec?

Ruth: 16% of businesses are majority-owned by women. But when you go a little further in terms of number of employees, it’s fewer than five employees. So that means that opportunities are being lost somewhere because you don’t have time to do everything. That’s why we focused on this area and how we can help these women whose businesses are growing and who want to get contracts and aren’t necessarily able to go out all the time to develop them. It’s true that we often come into the world with a lot of confidence, but what prevents us from moving ahead and going further is often the self-esteem that’s associated with the confidence. I’m confident that tomorrow morning I’m going to go to such and such a place and forge ahead, I’m going to do it. However, what often holds me back is the self-esteem that’s related to this, by saying I think I won’t be– the value I place on what I do, I tend to minimize it, and this is a major obstacle to our company’s development. So when you have fewer than five employees, that means that you need help developing your markets.

Katerine-Lune: What are women’s strengths in business?

Mériane: A woman’s strong point in business… I think we definitely have an emotional side. And I see this a lot, for example, in the women’s network, whether it’s the Réseau des femmes d’affaires or in other networks. We have an emotional side and a supportive side. We’re going to want to help each other, and that’s a huge strength. It’s all about where I’ve been and where I’m coming from. I don’t come from a family of entrepreneurs and my parents weren’t wealthy either. Now I’m 43 and I feel like Joan of Arc with a machete clearing the path ahead. But that’s my story. Nothing will stop me. I have a duty to be ready, to have a vision, to be firmly anchored, to do what I do well. I never said to myself, “Oh, well, I’m a woman.” I probably don’t come from that generation. I’m a woman and I’m going to find my way. It comes from my education, from the fact that I’m a marathon runner, that no matter what I do, if I prepare, if I have a vision and I prepare, I’ll get to where I want to go. For me, it’s the marathon, running, that taught me about entrepreneurship, gave me tools, showed me that I had no limits and that I could move forward.

Katerine-Lune: But it’s true that running a business is a long marathon, not a sprint. I think we also have to always keep that in mind for women entrepreneurs. Ruth, what do you consider to be women’s strengths in business?

Ruth: I would say determination. Women have a goal. But one of the pitfalls, I would say, is often to consider a means to an end. So when I do something, I expect it to be the right action. So determination is going to save things, because we’re going to make it up. I also find that women are extremely courageous. Because we don’t tend to take the shortest route. We’re going to take a lot of short detours to get to where we want to go. But determination and courage will save us. And often women, with a little bit of help – Mériane was talking about helping one another – go very, very far.

Katerine-Lune: Could it be that women are undermining themselves? A woman will look at a job, but if she doesn’t have all the skills required for the job, she won’t apply. Whereas a man, if he has 50% or 70% of the required skills, will. Are we, as women, sabotaging ourselves in some way?

Ruth: It’s true that business women, when applying for a job, if they don’t feel they have 100% of what is asked for in the call for tenders, will often refrain because they don’t think they are qualified. So they need a little help. We’re often… I say it a lot – most of the time we’re our own worst enemies. We often don’t need others to undermine us. But I’m sure Mériane has something to say on this topic.

Mériane: When I first started in the food industry, which I wasn’t familiar with, I would ask for things. And at the time there were people around me who said no, you’re small, you can’t. And that bothered me. I had a male partner whom I bought out because I didn’t want to hear that anymore. For me, it was “we’re moving ahead.” I’m still at the stage where I wear a number of hats. Right now I’m in a growth crisis, and that’s a huge step. So there are aspects that I feel less confident about. Where I feel confident, really confident, and I know that I have strong communication skills, which is a great asset, but there are areas where I lack confidence, for sure.

Katerine-Lune: How important is it to have the right kind of people around you? As you just said, Mériane, you’re in a pivotal point in your business, you want to grow even more. You still want to consider sources of financing, which you never did before because you never took out any loans. You paid for everything from your book sales and processed products, among other things. How do you know how to surround yourself with the right people and when to do so?

Mériane: I used to think that if I had to borrow money, it was because I wasn’t successful. But that’s not the right way to think. Today, I know, I have an opportunity to reinject money. My company has no debt. I come from an environment where we didn’t have much. I’ve been working since the age of 11. So it came from that side, that I became aware and said no, Mériane, you’re going to grow your business, you’re going to do it. So I’m preparing my application. Right now, I’m going through a process to help myself grow, and it’s not so simple. But I’m at a crossroads. Either you stay with the status quo or you take risks, meaning you have to engage to move to another gear. So that I can do tasks where I really excel, not tasks I don’t talk to you about where maybe Ruth goes “Mériane, I don’t recognize you!” But it’s a big step to say OK, I need to get people because otherwise I won’t be able to keep up. Otherwise I’ll get sick. It’s not that clear-cut.

Katerine-Lune: Ruth, you often say that women get advice from people who are very close to them: their spouse, family, neighbours, whereas these people may not be best suited to help them with their business.

Ruth: That’s well said. Well, actually, it’s something like what Mériane just said because she says, “I’m going to have to get a loan; I haven’t applied yet.” And that’s typically female behaviour, where we often take money from our own savings. Once we’ve used up our own savings, we dip into the family’s savings, which we call love money. Then when there’s none left, we go to the bank. In fact, it’s when you’re starting up that it’s time to go, where you have some money, you have invested capital, you’re able to make it grow. So what actually happens, when I’ve used my savings, the love money, when I’m with my advisory board at dinner on Saturday night, with my husband and mother who lent me money, for example, and someone asks me: “How’s your business doing?” “Oh, I’m doing really well; I’m thinking of expanding.” So your husband, who’s at home and also gave you money, says “Oh!” He’s thinking, “So from now on, my wife isn’t going to be at home as much.” And the mother who hears the same thing says, “Oh, what happens if my daughter expands and goes bankrupt. So it’s a risk for her.” And the woman entrepreneur says, “I have such great support, I’m surrounded by people who love me and give me good advice, where there is a constant conflict of interest. So the art of having the right people around you is to seek out advice with no conflict of interest, because you don’t know, is it the spouse talking or the person you trust who will give you the advice you need right now.

Katerine-Lune: What happens when you actually go meet with a financial advisor, go get financing? Do women again have a different view of how you have to come prepared compared to how some male entrepreneurs will come to see their financial advisor?

Ruth: Of course, because we come with a fear of rejection. So I’m so afraid of being refused that I’d rather not go. Whereas a man is always going to do what needs to be done. It’s: “I don’t need money, but I’d like you to know what my life goals are. So I build this relationship before going any further.” Your account manager is your best friend. It’s a relationship that you create because in real life, you have to be in regular contact with him or her.

Katerine-Lune: So in a situation where women experience rejection, whether it’s because our idea wasn’t accepted or because we didn’t get the financing we wanted, how do we cope with that?

Ruth: We live with rejection by talking to others, by not isolating ourselves. We talked about the importance of being supported, but the importance of being in a network with people you can talk to, have discussions with. Because you’re never the only one who’s living through a certain situation. And the fact of talking about it leads us to potential solutions that are so interesting. But you need switchers on the market to be able to move toward solutions that are all equally interesting, but that can take a totally different direction from where you thought it would go.

Katerine-Lune: Yes, you are absolutely right. The important thing is to establish a relationship of trust with our account manager to learn about all the tools that are available to help the business grow.
If there are young women or women of any age listening to us who would like to start a business and don’t believe they have the inner strength that you both seem to have, what advice would you give them?

Mériane: For me, the most important thing is to have belief. And people often don’t exactly know what they want. If that’s really what you want, you believe in it, no matter what your background or your great idea. And then the important thing is to take small steps each day to realize your business vision.

Ruth: How many times do you meet women who say, “Oh, I would love to do this, it’s my dream, that’s what I want.” Well actually, when you stop to think, I’m living my life right now. When I’m old, what do I want to say about myself? Do I want to say that I did it or should have done it? So going into business is the same thing. I’m assuming that this is the life I’m living. I’m going to live it the way I want. I’m going to do it the way I want to. And the day I say, I’ve been dreaming about this so much, the longer I wait, the more I delay having the life I want to create.

Katerine-Lune: So, ladies, you’re both really so inspiring. I was completely energized during the last 20 minutes! So, Ruth, I’m going to sign up on the network, and Mériane, I’m looking forward to your new products at the grocery store. I can’t wait to taste everything that’s being made with date puree. Thank you very much for being with us.

Ruth: It was a pleasure.

Mériane: Madame Labriski says thank you!

Katerine-Lune: Libres échanges is presented by Desjardins Business. You can find all of the podcasts in the series on Spotify. My name is Katerine-Lune Rollet and thank you for tuning in.

Valérie: What we realize is that my parents started the business from nothing; they didn't even have a hammer.

Jasmin: It's also a challenge to manage growth and productivity.

André: And we have to deal with the whims of mother nature.

Katerine-Lune: Hello, I'm Katerine-Lune Rollet. You're listening to Libre échanges, a Desjardins Business podcast where I talk with local entrepreneurs. Today, I'd like to take you into the agriculture sector to talk about growth challenges. Enjoy the podcast.
Entrepreneurs in the agricultural sector face many challenges. To talk about them, I'm pleased to be meeting with 2 major agricultural producers who've come to tell us what it's like running their businesses. During our discussion, I'll try to get an understanding of the investment, cash flow and profitability challenges involved in managing a large family farm.
Valérie Jutras: Your parents founded Les Cultures de chez nous near Drummondville in 1981. Now you're the operations manager and your 2 brothers are also involved in the family farm. Tell us a bit about the history of your farm. What do you grow there?

Valérie: We mainly grow leeks. You could say we're the main producer of leeks in Quebec, but we also grow asparagus in season. The asparagus season in Quebec lasts only 6 intense weeks. We also have a pick-your-own berries operation and we grow berries as a field crop for rotation purposes. And we also have a new crop: We were bored, so we started growing some squash.

Katerine-Lune: André Massicotte: Your parents started the Paul Massicotte et Fils family farm in the Mauricie region in 1965. And if I understand correctly, you've done every job on the farm at one time or another since you were a kid. And today, you're the CEO and co-owner. So if Valérie was born into leeks, can we say you were born into cabbages?

André: Yes, you could say we're into cabbages and the good coleslaw we process here on the farm. We grow cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower and celery. We also grow strawberries and have slightly more traditional field crops and a dairy operation. Then with all the vegetables, we make processed products, coleslaw, potato salad and macaroni salad. And for people with a sweet tooth, we also make delicious pastries.

Katerine-Lune: You're both very humble and haven't talked about the size of your farms. I think it's important to explain, Valérie, that Les Cultures de chez nous is an 800-acre operation. And André, your farm has more than 1,000 acres. So, these are very large farms. Before I go on, there's one more person joining us today: Jasmin Rousseau. Jasmin, you have training in agricultural economics and you've been with Desjardins Business for 16 years, managing large-scale farm accounts, such as those of our other 2 guests. I think you know Valérie well, do you not?

Jasmin: I sure do. I'm her account manager and account manager for Les Cultures de chez nous.

Katerine-Lune: What exactly does an account manager do for a farm business?

Jasmin: As an account manager, I'd say that I do 2 main things. First, I'm a financial advisor for all the business's operating needs, such as operations cash flow, financing, equipment and long-term capital investment, foreign currency requirements, credit cards and payroll services, etc. But at the same time, I feel that an account manager is also a partner–a partner in the business's strategic development and growth, and in the business's succession planning. I'm a partner is the sense that I propose financing strategies tailored to members' needs and concerns.

Katerine-Lune: Valérie, I can imagine that running a family farm has its share of challenges. Can you give us some specific examples?

Valérie: Yes, there are a lot of challenges because, as the second generation, we're still working together with my parents–we're all involved. I would perhaps say that it's a matter of aligning visions, mentalities and ways of doing things. And you have to realize that when that my parents started the business; it was just the 2 of them; they started with nothing and didn't have many employees. Now we have 70 employees and we export to the United States. Everything from advertising to Facebook to social media; it all takes up a lot of time and effort. Of course, there's a bit of a difference with my father; I would say that sometimes we don't have the same vision of balancing work and family life. So, those are the challenges, but the important thing is to learn how to talk to one another, communicate and monetize our budgets; I think those are things we need to do more now because the business is no longer what it was in the very beginning.

Katerine-Lune: Yes, that’s right. The more a farm grows, the more important having good communication becomes.
A big farm is a big investment. Take, for example, what it costs to acquire land, equipment and machinery. Valérie, you just told us that your parents really had nothing when they started their business. What were the major investments for Les Cultures de chez nous?

Valérie: As you said, they started from nothing; so, at the time, they didn't even have a hammer. So, that's more than starting from nothing! But first and foremost, of course, the major investment at the time was purchasing the farm and the land. Then it's all of the infrastructure and equipment. Leeks are a vegetable that's still not very well known, and at the time, they were a very, very marginal crop. Leek-growing had not been developed for Quebec. My parents were in France at the time because there was a much higher consumption of leeks there; leek-growing was very advanced there, compared with Quebec. So, it was really about all the machinery and equipment. After that, there was production line equipment to buy. Then, when you want to produce the sliced leeks, you have to make another investment to expand the business and fit up a processing room. When we talk about having a cold room to use every year, if we want to have Quebec leeks on the shelves for as long as possible, a five- or six-hundred-thousand-dollar investment is needed to install a cold room that can accommodate all the leeks for a month, in November. Those are more or less the big investments. Over the years, you might also buy additional land because you need it and want to expand. The same goes for advertising and, in our case, for computer systems. Nowadays, farms are all about transferability, hygiene and food supply. You also have to invest in that; perhaps a smaller amount than you would to buy land, but you have to take that into account; it can't be overlooked.

Katerine-Lune: André: You have a very diverse range of products, including dairy products, market gardening vegetables and processed products. Is it a recipe for success not to put all your eggs in one basket?

André: When you have a number of business lines, it's like a stock market investment portfolio or something like that, which in the end makes for a somewhat diversified investment. Sometimes a traditional business line, such as our dairy operation, is our cash cow. A few years ago, it was food processing in the end that gave us a better year and was profitable on a regular basis. Then when you have a number of different business lines, it's like a risky to medium-risk investment portfolio with bigger risks thrown in. The result is that it provides a bit of overall financial security for the company.

Katerine-Lune: They say that the return on investment in the food processing sector is over 3 or 4 years. Whereas, in the agriculture sector, it's more than 7 to 10 years. Jasmin, are there other advantages to diversifying production as André is doing?

Jasmin: The agri-food processing sector is kind of between pure agriculture and commercial agriculture. We want a slightly faster return on investment. The risk is different and the market is different. And in farming, we have longer-term assets, which underpin investments. So it gives us a longer service life or a slightly longer return for the investment objective.

Katerine-Lune: Agricultural entrepreneurs may be ahead of the curve, but there are many factors beyond their control. Do the whims of mother nature and the obvious climate challenges have an impact on crop forecasts and the company's cash flow? Valérie.

Valérie: Yes, in our case, mother nature is part of our daily lives. I have to say that over time, she's given us a few grey hairs! We try to plan as much as possible when we meet, especially in winter, whether it be about land area– we've also diversified a bit more to protect ourselves, as André said. Based on our clients' expectations, we want to grow so many leeks and so much asparagus and we apportion the areas for those crops accordingly. But sometimes the unexpected happens; it could be in our greenhouses where we start our leeks from seed, and we're not protected from a possible outbreak of disease in the greenhouses. Even if things have been going well for 5 to 10 years, all of a sudden, it just takes a small virus or bacteria and then we don't know why we can't get the seeds to germinate as they should. Then at our level of operation, when you have a 2% or 3% germination rate out of 8 million seeds, it still has a big impact on cash flow because I'll have fewer leeks. I paid for the seed and greenhouse maintenance costs. If we talk about when it's time to plant our leeks or asparagus in the field, there's a good example: we had an early spring this year. Everyone's happy because it's hot weather. The asparagus is sprouting early, the strawberry plants are growing; they're in blossom, but there's always a full moon in May, and it was later this year. So we had a 3-day freeze at minus 4, which is very, very harmful and risky for strawberries. We had to get up during the night; our teams got up to irrigate to try to protect the plants, but we had frost despite everything we did. Here's another example: We've just lost a few harvest days, which is directly related to profitability or cash flow, if you will. Because if I sell 50,000 dozen less, it's definitely going to have a direct impact on our sales figures because the fixed costs are the same. So that's where we're affected most … mother nature comes and plays tricks, I'd say.

Katerine-Lune: André: What do you think is the benefit of having a maximum amount of cash flow?

André: When you have maximum cash flow, you can do more, perhaps in terms of inventory management and buying supplies a bit in advance before prices go up. We're seeing a lot of price increases for various products. When you can do a little advance booking, when you have a good cash flow ratio, you can make strategic purchases for potential sales. To give you an example, we recently purchased cardboard boxes for a period of 3 to 4 months to make sure our price is frozen for the next 3 or 4 months during a peak period when we have slightly more sales. We did some booking to avoid being hit with a price increase before the time we needed the boxes. When you have cash flow, you can save money in the medium term.

Katerine-Lune: You're talking about the medium term, but if I understand correctly, you also have to have a short- and long-term vision to avoid running out of cash. Jasmin, do you have any advice for entrepreneurs who want to maximize their cash flow?

Jasmin: First, I'd take the time to draw up an annual budget with the account manager to find out the company's annual financing and cash flow needs and peak cash flow periods, so that I can make the line of credit available during those peak periods accordingly. I'd also keep some leeway in our annual budget for contingencies so that there is cash on hand to deal with them. With entrepreneurs, it's important to differentiate between cash flow needs and investment needs so that we don't finance long-term assets, such as machinery, equipment and tractors, out of the line of credit. Sometimes it's tempting when the cash is there. Instead of calling your account manager, you put the expense on the line of credit, but at the end of the season, the line of credit is no longer doing its job and may be a bit too high. So, it's important to talk to your account manager in order to finance the purchase of machinery and equipment and then keep the line of credit for operating cash flow. Also, if major unforeseen events occur, such as crop losses or loss of customers, it's important to inform your account manager so that a solution can be found for short-term cash flow problems. It will take some stress off the business owner and dispel some uncertainty.

Katerine-Lune: Valérie and André: Would you say that a line of credit is an essential financial product for you? Valérie

Valérie: Yes. When you're starting out in business especially, you have to have some security. If you don't have any cash on hand, you need a line of credit to keep things going. And, as I was saying, you also have to pay your fixed costs. In the leek-growing business, we start the leeks from seeds in greenhouses to be able to harvest them only in August before making the first sales. So, we have to pay for all the maintenance and seed purchases over a 6-month period, or as André says, the boxes, cling wrap and everything, and our employees' wages. Without a line of credit, it would be very difficult to be in business or to keep going.

André: Our situation is also a bit similar to that of Cultures de chez nous. May and June are the big sales periods for processed prepared salads. We also have months with higher sales. So, our lines of credit are essential to the company's continued operations; it's a plus to have a good line of credit. As in Valérie's case, there's seed to pay for; so it's important for our account manager to give us a bit of support to deal with our changing financial requirements.

Katerine-Lune: Let's talk now about profitability. Do all three of you have any advice or possible solutions for increasing a business's profitability in the agriculture sector?

Valérie: For us leek producers, profitability is perhaps a typical concern because, as I said, leeks are still a very marginal business line and not well known. Over the years, since the very beginning, it has really been about maximizing–sorry, increasing–profitability; it's all about machinery and equipment that we really had to invest in to be able to produce quality leeks and carve out market share for ourselves in the food supply chains year-round as well as ensure that our employees had work year-round. If you want to sell more than dozens of leeks for the company to be more profitable, you have to promote leeks. You have to promote leeks because people don't buy a lot of leeks, other than for soup. And our mission at Les Cultures de chez nous is to get leeks into every bag of groceries every week. We have a lot of work to do; so, that's why for us, yes, innovation is top of mind, but we also have to do a lot of work to educate people. You have to show people what they can do with leeks. That's why we ran an ad on TV and in magazines–it's very rare for a farm business to do that. We created the completementpoireau.com website to suggest some really good recipes. Innovation and education, it's all tied together.

Katerine-Lune: André, do you have any advice?

André: Yes, in our operation, every employee has a third person who can replace them. Each employee has a backup who can take over to keep operations running as usual. But we still have a challenge when it comes to managing employees. We're like everybody else; we have a shortage of employees, but we're always actively looking for people to hire for vacant positions.

Katerine-Lune: Jasmin, maybe you have some advice as well?

Jasmin: It's along the same lines as what André and Valérie said. I'd also encourage you to seek out partners and technical advisors who can help you with more specific aspects of the business to make it more efficient. Basically, it's important to know good people who can help you. Valérie said that innovation means keeping up with innovations in your business line. Automation and robotization are happening in all agriculture and agri-food sectors; they continue to be things you need to consider to maintain your productivity and stay competitive. There's also innovation, but I would also say to entrepreneurs that they should not be afraid to question how they do things or to reassess their production methods. Talk to other entrepreneurs about how you can improve your methods and your performance.

Katerine-Lune: We've talked today about investments, cash flow and profitability, but I'd like you to tell me about the people who operate farm businesses. What are some of the attributes that make a good agricultural entrepreneur?

Valérie: I think that agricultural entrepreneurs nowadays must believe in what they're doing first of all, then do their utmost to make their dreams come true. Of course, you have to have a vision and be bold. You clearly have to be bold. But nowadays, operating a farm business has also become so complicated. I think you have to demonstrate leadership, be inspirational for people, be very humble and be able to surround yourself with a team, because you can't function on your own, it's impossible. Then you have to make sure that your team has strengths that are different from your own because you can't be good at everything. That's what will help you go farther in your business.

Katerine-Lune: Is being an agricultural entrepreneur a vocation?

Valérie: Yes, I think so. It really requires a lot of effort and sacrifices, but at the same time, there are rewards. And when you're doing what you love to do, I think it makes a difference. It makes all the difference. You really have to like what you're doing. There are ups and downs and problems, as there are with everything. But yes, it's a vocation.

Katerine-Lune: André, in 3 words, what do you have to say?

André: You have to be curious, passionate and a good communicator: those are the essential attributes of a good entrepreneur, as well as being open to new things and innovation.

Katerine-Lune: Jasmin, what do you have to say to wrap up?

Jasmin: It's along the same lines as André and Valérie. I think they summarized it very well. I think a good agricultural entrepreneur is someone who knows how to put together a good team and delegate tasks. They also know their numbers, their production costs and the day-to-day reality of their business. Then, as someone said, they have to be innovative, willing to try new ways of doing things and willing to question how they do things.

Katerine-Lune: I'd like to thank the 3 of you for being here today. I think you gave us a better understanding of the main challenges in the agricultural sector and of what is involved in running an agricultural business or advising agricultural entrepreneurs. I hope mother nature will be on your side in the months ahead.

Valérie: Thank you.

André: Thank you.

Jasmin: Thank you.

Katerine-Lune: Libres échanges is presented by Desjardins Business. You can find all of the podcasts in the series on Spotify. My name is Katerine-Lune Rollet; thank you for listening.